Fun with interface control of execs in V1.5.2.3 (bug or feature edition) AKA Ku

  • Hi, with MA2 we used to be able to flash or toggle an exec of change the level of an execs master via the mouse/touch screen/HID

    How do I do this now?
    Clicking anywhere on the exec 201 icon pulls up its edit context menu, regardless of left or right click or where those clicks are made or if the click is held/dragged, or if gestures are used like the spinning motion used to drive the rotation of virtual encoders. it seems to me that i am going crazy. OR like there is no way to physically handle basic controls of an exec using touch or any human interface, which I would think is counter intuitive to the heavy emphasis on UI gesture with the rest of the applications functionality. or maybe I'm doing something wrong?

    Also, if I try to edit exec 201 by typing edit exec 201, the edit context opens and exec 201 flashes red as expected, but if I right click exec 201, CLF says the the syntax executed is "edit page 1.201".
    I can then say "on 201" or "off 201" and this works.
    but If try "on exec 1.201" nothing happens, while "on page 1.201" this does toggle on exec 201.
    for a command (where i want to specify the page the exec is on) I have to use on page 1.201" even though the object that I am really meaning to refer to here is an executor. This is confusing and in my opinion should change no?

    Other oddities i have noticed are listed below: (not using keyboard shortcuts)

    store exec 201
    Then:

    If I type "fader" into CL and touch exec 201, a new seq is created and assigned to exec 102. doing this again moves exec 102 to exec 103 and so on.
    If I type "fader at 100" into CL and touch exec 201, a new seq is created and assigned to exec 102. doing this again moves exec 102 to exec 103 and so on.
    if i type "fader 201 at 100" the command is valid and executed, but the listed level of exec 201's master remains at 50%.
    if i type "sel" and then click on an empty exec a new seq is made and assigned to the empy exec and is selected
    if i type "master 201 at 100" i get CLF "illegal object".
    if i type "exec 201 full" nothing happens.
    if i type "Fader 1.201 at 100" CLF is "can not create object"
    If i type "fader exec 201 at 100" a new seq is created and assigned to exec 102 and is selected
    If i type "page 1.120 at 100" the previously (unintentionally created seq occupying exec 102 moves to exec 120
    If i type "Page 1.201 full" the command is executed but nothing happens.



  • Hi, with MA2 we used to be able to flash or toggle an exec of change the level of an execs master via the mouse/touch screen/HID

    How do I do this now?
    Clicking anywhere on the exec 201 icon pulls up its edit context menu, regardless of left or right click or where those clicks are made or if the click is held/dragged, or if gestures are used like the spinning motion used to drive the rotation of virtual encoders. it seems to me that i am going crazy. OR like there is no way to physically handle basic controls of an exec using touch or any human interface, which I would think is counter intuitive to the heavy emphasis on UI gesture with the rest of the applications functionality. or maybe I'm doing something wrong?

    Tapping on the Label in the playback window acts as tapping on the label in the playback bar (i.e. opening the assign menu). Tapping on / otherwise interacting with the executor section (i.e. buttons / faders / knobs) will act on the button/fader/knob.


    Also, if I try to edit exec 201 by typing edit exec 201, the edit context opens and exec 201 flashes red as expected, but if I right click exec 201, CLF says the the syntax executed is "edit page 1.201".
    I can then say "on 201" or "off 201" and this works.
    but If try "on exec 1.201" nothing happens, while "on page 1.201" this does toggle on exec 201.
    for a command (where i want to specify the page the exec is on) I have to use on page 1.201" even though the object that I am really meaning to refer to here is an executor. This is confusing and in my opinion should change no?

    This is all working as expected. "Page 1.201" = Page 1 Exec 201. In general in grandMA3, "<object> x.y" = <object> x <child_of_object> y, and executors are children of pages (in the tree structure). If you just say "Exec 201" without specifying the page, it will be Exec 201 on the current page.


    This contrasts with grandMA2 which had lots of inconsistency in the syntax "<object> x.y.z" for which of x, y, and z was the grandparent, parent, object, child, or grandchild object.

    Select + empty exec behavior is expected.


    Master 201 At 100 = illegal object is expected. "Master" is the parent object for all selected, grand, speed, and playback masters. "FaderMaster" is the keyword to set the master fader level of a sequence. In general, perhaps have a look at this thread.

  • Cheers for the response Ryan. I tried variations of fadermaster to set exec 201 to 0 and full and those didn't work either. The only way to make it work is to omit the working name of the object I am working with (the exec id) and refer to the object as a page part, which seems counter-intuitive to me, but its not all about what i think i guess.
    I am able to control the exec using the playback window, but am disappointed I cant just run an exec's fader up via the exec master level indicator with the mouse, or at least a click and swipe gesture or reset an temp exec with the mouse, from within the main letterbox/playback bar. That was a really handy feature that negated the need to call a new window or have a new view that I would only ever use for that purpose.

    I'm far from having a robust understanding of MA3 yet, but I still think something fishy is going on with execs though. an illegal or wrong syntax shouldn't create a new seq, assign it to an exec then move said exec to a random place in the second playback bar. especially when non of the syntax used referenced any exec id/number. IE when trying to effect a change on only exec 201, using only the numbers 201 in the command line and not using any action words like "move" or "copy" or "assign" or object handles like "sequence". Its strange to see a new random seq created, and it be assigned to say exec 150 by its self. or an exec or seq that isn't referred to at all being moved.
    For example if i click in a the empty seq 7 pool tile, i would not expect a new seq to automatically be created at seq 11 for example. Defiantly not just by clicking, and without having the store keyword or shorthand in the command line.

    Thankyou for your patience, and for explaining thins! Going to take a long time to get used to the new structure. "exec 2.201 at 0" was a far cry more logical and easier and to remember than "fadermaster page 2.201 at 0", But i understand their reasoning here. I just hate that I cant make "this" do "that", without omitting the real world name of the object. its like the statement "Something else do this" . kind messes with the whole point of nomenclature in an object ordinated system if that makes any sense? Maybe they can allow for both in the future as a compromise :)

  • The only way to make it work is to omit the working name of the object I am working with (the exec id) and refer to the object as a page part, which seems counter-intuitive to me, but its not all about what i think i guess.

    using Page x.y to refer to executor y on page x is not mandatory.

    If you are more comfortable with using the Executor keyword please do so, and use either of the first three of the four syntax variants below


    Go+ Executor 201 

    -> Go executor 201 on current page

    Go+ Executor 201 Page 2 

    -> Go executor 201 on second page

    Go+ Page 2 Executor 201

    -> Go executor 201 on second page

    Go+ Page 2.201

    -> Go executor 201 on second page

  • Thanks mate! Unfortunately this isn't what I was looking for. I was looking for a way to action an exec from the exec tool bar at the bottom of the onpc screens 2 and 3 with the mouse or a touch gesture, without needing to open the playback window. The master level indicator would be a perfect place to build this function into, as its intuitive to try and click there, and has more screen resolution than the the virtual fader in the playback window. Also syntax to control the level of an exec fader. Direct control in the main UI is needed for objects such as special masters, eg for the rate multiplier functions, so it makes sense to at least have a gesture build in or to give parts of the exec (not including its label) some form of direct user interaction control.

    You comment brings up a good point though in regards to what I was saying is an inconsistency with syntax in my situation. where its not possible to address an exec fader level using the exec keyword, but it is possible to address an exec fader using the the page keyword. Your example syntax shows that both can be used in some circumstances, but not others. which I think needs to be addressed at some point.

  • Hey Ryan, if playback is owned by the seq now and not the executor, what is the point of executors other than them just being a handle for a sequence? Is the idea to eventually scrap the "executor" handle and just refer directly to seq handles as playbacks or something?

  • what you by default find at the bottom of screen 2 and 3 on OnPC is the content of the letterbox screens on the fullsize and the light.

    The letterbox screen is intended for labels of the physical executors, and for touchscreen interaction.

    When you have physical faders and buttons, and touchscreens it is not intuitive if interaction with this content was designed for mouse-operation of tiny areas.


    If you intend to use grandMA3 as purely mouse-controlled, with no playback hardware, I suggest you deactivate this bar in the Configure Display menu, and rather fill that screen estate with a playback-window showing e.g. row 200 or row 300/400, which may be operated via the mousewheel, or via sliding or rotational gestures respectively.


    Your example syntax shows that both can be used in some circumstances, but not others. which I think needs to be addressed at some point

    Can you please share which circumstances the syntax "Page x Executor y" cannot be used instead of "Page x.y"?

  • Hey Ryan, if playback is owned by the seq now and not the executor, what is the point of executors other than them just being a handle for a sequence? Is the idea to eventually scrap the "executor" handle and just refer directly to seq handles as playbacks or something?

    They are a just a handle, but they work for several different object types, not just Sequences (e.g. Groups, Masters, Macros, to name 3 more off the top of my head). And you can already apply playback or fader commands directly to sequences without them even being assigned to an executor - just specify the target sequence number instead of the exec number

  • Yea I know all about execs as playback handles, what I dont understand is when you say "seq owns playback in ma3". Normally its the exec that owns the playback of what ever object is assigned to it or a seq could own playback if it is called directly without being assigned to an exec.


    Eg if a seq is assigned to an exec, playback is owned by the exec when that exec is called. If that seq (not the exec its assinged to) is called via the command line, then the seq would own the playback?

  • That is how it worked in MA2. But not how it works in MA3.


    In MA3 the sequence always owns the playback. So if you have the same sequence assigned to multiple execs and you press Go on any of those execs, or trigger the sequence directly in the pool, or via command line, all of those are the same thing, and it's the sequence object that actually gets triggered.

  • grandMA2 analogy:

    - a gma2 sequence is a DVD with content

    - a gma2 executor is a DVD-player.

    you cannot watch the DVD without inserting it into a player

    on gma2 if you tried to do so, the DVD would be automatically inserted into a hidden disposable DVD-player


    grandMA3 analogy:

    - a gma3 sequence is both a DVD with content and a fully functional DVD-player.

    - a gma3 executor is a merely an optional DVD-player-remote-control with user-definable buttons

    on gma3 you can start the DVD-player either directly on the player or via a paired remote, you can pair as many remotes you need, and you can discard paired remotes while DVD is playing.

  • Thanks guys. But that brings me back to the previous question again. Now that a seq is essentially its own handle, what is the point of having execs at all now?

    We may as well do the same thing with any object, and then scrap the executor all together. To be clear here, I have a an expert understanding of ma2 (bold statement I know) and I completly understand what you guys are saying already. I know that execs handle other/non seq object types. I think maybe I'm not asking my question clearly so I will try rephrase it.

    What was/is the intension or reasoning behind changing playback ownership from the primary vehicle built to handle playback objects in MA3 (The Executor) to the Seq (object) When the exec is still primary the vehicle of handling playbacks of all other non seq playback objects? What is so special about the seq now, or what was wrong previously that required this to be reviewed?

    Previously playback handles had one of the highest priorities within the system, only exceeded really by output and some other things for example. So changing playback ownership back to the object its self could kind of mess with insurance we used to have here. If you've ever experienced ma2 go into a loop, you'll recall that touch and most other functions (Fixture output calculations, any HID ect) become unresponsive, But mission critical stuff like canbus, networking and physical execs are still maintained to the highest degree possible to sustain output. Will a move to a more virtualised handling of seq object playback be better or safer? Or is this a sacrifice for less restrictive development conditions in the future? Or a change made for reasons i haven't or cant imagine?

    Forgive me for wasting anyone's time with this, I'm just very curious about changes to stuff like this, as these things will shape some of my discussion making processes while I try develop new workflows for my transition to from Ma2 to Ma3.

  • Thanks guys. But that brings me back to the previous question again. Now that a seq is essentially its own handle, what is the point of having execs at all now?

    Presumably you might want some sort of physical interaction at some point. An exec is a generic point of physical interaction that can act on multiple different types of objects.

    What was/is the intension or reasoning behind changing playback ownership from the primary vehicle built to handle playback objects in MA3 (The Executor) to the Seq (object) When the exec is still primary the vehicle of handling playbacks of all other non seq playback objects? What is so special about the seq now, or what was wrong previously that required this to be reviewed?

    The exec is not the primary vehicle for handling playback of other non-seq objects. All objects which can be assigned to an executor still control their own playback (e.g. if you EditSetting a Group object, you'll see its Master level there, manipulatable without being assigned to an exec).

    Simplified.. IS there a plan to change or modify what we refer to as executors in Ma3, in the future?

    Certainly a plan for more flexibility in terms of playback options (e.g. different options when holding MA vs. not, perhaps the ability to assign a function on button-release, perhaps the ability to use generic command line syntax as a button function, etc.). But in terms of underlying structure? Unlikely.