How to set the right Width for a "Chase" Phaser

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  • Hi to all

    I try to understand the rule of the width setting when I want to make a dimmer chase phaser (each light at full 1 by 1).

    I understood that without any XWing or XGroup, the rule is : 100 / "Number of fixtures".

    But when I change XWing, I can't understand how it works. For every different value I try to put in XWing, I have to find a new Width value.

    Also I think I found how it works when I put a value on XGroup, but even if it seems to work, it seems a little weird : 100 / (XGroup - 1) :/

    Somebody would have the solution for this? Like a formula just to apply?

    Thanks by advance

  • How should I explain it as best:
    You have in total 12 fixtures in a row....Fix1 is left and Fix12 is right
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
    Wings:
    You set a wing of 2. It means the row of 12 fixtures is split in 2 half.....Left half has Fix1-6, right half Fix7-12. So it mean if you highlite with Wings=2 Fixture 1, also Fixture 7 will be highlited.You can define the startpoint for the group by using X (Y/Z). X=0....so it means Fix1&12 are in the 1st set of gorups, and Fix2&11 are in 2nd set of groups (X=1),....
    Groups:
    You set a group of 2. It means every 2nd fixture. You can define the startpoint for the group by using X (Y/Z). X=0....so it means Fix1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 are in the 1st set of gorups, and Fix2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 are in 2nd set of groups (X=1)
    Blocks:
    You set a block of 2. It means all time 2 Fixtures are combined. In this case Fix1&2, 3&4, 5&6, 7&8, 9&10, 11&12. By using X=0 you select the 1st set of 2 Fixtures.
    If you don't use the X (Y/Z) then this setting is used for in phasers when using an effect. So in your case....if you have:
    NO MATricks: the width (for Dimmer@100) to use for 12 fixtures, one is on, it would be 100/12=8,3333
    Wings=2: the width (for Dimmer@100) to use for 12 fixtures, one is on, it would be 100/6=16,6666
    Groups=2: the width (for Dimmer@100) to use for 12 fixtures, one is on, it would be 100/2=50
    Groups+Wings=2: the width (for Dimmer@100) to use for 12 fixtures, one is on, it would be 100/2=50
    WHY? Because Wings select a half and groups select every 2nd fixture.
    And as little hint....if the width from calculation is 8,333, you can use 9 as width, if you use less, you have a black phase inbetween.

  • Thanks for your explanation, I tried several tests with differents XWing and XGroup values, and the result I get is : it works almost.

    I have a group of 42 fixtures (I used a not commun number on purpose to be sure of the result) and I try to play only with XWing :

    - XWing 2 : 100/21 -> 4.8%, but 5% (100/20) better, no gap.

    - XWing 3 : 100/14 -> 7.1% but 7.69% (100/13) better, no gap.

    - XWing 6 : 100/7 -> 14.3% but 16.6% (100/6) better, no gap.

    - XWing 8 : 100/5.25 -> 19% but 20% (100/5) better, no gap.

    - XWing 13 : 100/3.23 -> 31% but 20% (100/5) better, no gap.

    - XWing 19 : 100/2.21 -> 45.2% but 33.3% (100/3) better, no gap.

    - XWing 28 : 100/1.5 -> 66.7% but 100% better, no gap.

    So I always have to correct the width but I don't inderstand which rule I have to follow.

    Now I try to play with XGroup :

    - XGroup 2 : 100/2 -> 50%.

    - XGroup 3 : 100/3 -> 33.3% but 50% (100/2) better, no gap.

    - XGroup 5 : 100/5 -> 20% but 25% (100/4) better, no gap.

    - XGroup 7 : 100/7 -> 14.28% but 16.6% (100/6) better, no gap.

    - XGroup 13 : 100/13 -> 7.69% but 8.3% (100/12) better, no gap.

    So it seems that I have to substract 1 to each XGroup value to have the right Width.

    I didnt't try for real melting XGroup and XWing as I'd like to understand first how each of both values influence the Width.

    Is it the normal behavior? Do you agree with the results I found?

  • I would suggest to use only 2 wings (left and right part).....if you have 4 wings it is split in left part: left/right and right part: left/right.....to have more wings makes sense in special conditions....you have to try yourself. if you want to split a wing, then use wing=2 and groups=z

    The result is correct you have....BUT how you work with groupings here, this is on your own favor....you need wings to have a symetrical view only....otherwise you can use only groups.

  • I usually prepare effects combinating XGroup and XWing, that's the reason I'm looking for the way to set the width value quickly and efficiently, without having to try several values before finding the good one.

    So it wouldn't exist a rule which permits to anticipate the behavior of the Width depending of XGroup, XWing, and the other settings?

  • You can see it at best in the selection grid....Wings divide the amount of fixtures...groups create a group of the fixtures ;) In your way....as you use wings all the time: divide the amount of fixtures by 2, then you have an amount of fixtures....using group=2, width 50%, group=3, width 33%, group=4, width=25%,....but it depends all the time as well on the used phaserform....give 1% extra create other styles then -1%

  • Preparing a chaser became a pain in the as.. head! ;(

    Do you know if in the v2 of the GMA3 soft we'll have more forms, particulary a real "Chaser form" as we had in MA2 or MA1? :)

    about v2 you have to ask MA if they give a roadmap....I am sorry.

    The phaser has for sure potential to get some improovements, in general I like the phaser more over MA2. Sure, forms and visability could be better....but it works. Also the chance to adjust the width on the fly would be better. But this calcualtion stuff needed to be done in MA2 as well ;-).....and a huge advantage of MA3 in the phaser is the measure. You didn't have something like this in MA2....so there was much more calcualtion needed...in timing additional to width ;)

  • Hi

    How can you have 28 wings or 13 groups with 42 fixtures selected ?

    There is no form in phaser editor because in gma 3 a phaser can have 64 steps. How can you define a form for 64 steps ?

    In gma2, an effect was only 2 values.

    If you want a chaser with one lamp, just set a wirth of 100/selected fixtures

    And have a look at your selection grid.

  • BUT in MA2 you could scribble your own FORM with lots and lots of points or spline. i think you can even get more than 64

  • I don't.

    The idea is to find out the mathematical relation between all of the parameters (wings, groups, etc...) and understand how they behave in function of the others.

    And not to have to find out and set the width manualy every time I change Groups or Wings...

    Still don't have a solution for this.

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