MIB issue with position phaser

  • MIB seems to work fine for the most part, except for when I have fixtures in a positional phaser.

    Example: In Cue 2, my fixtures dim off. In Cue 3 I have fixtures dim on and go into a circle phaser. Since in Cue 2 these fixtures are off, setting MIB on Cue 3 should work. However, when I hit Go from Cue 2 to Cue 3 (with MIB), the fixtures will either: turn on and remain motionless... or just tilt very slowly instead of doing the circle animation it's supposed to. My current solution is to manually "MIB" by setting the circle phaser in Cue 2 (and manually delaying the position change until after the dim is off) and then removing all the tracking in Cue 3 so all I have to do is set dim to full for smooth transition into motion.

    Bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

  • If The vielä phaser has relative attributes IT won't MiB. U can put mib mode from running to paused that should Start The phaser on right cue, or use absolute attributes for The phaser.

    At The moment MIB does not support relative values.

  • Ah that explains a lot, thank you. I did try the paused... it sort of worked as the movement "rushed" to it's position... adding a longer fade to the position fixes this though.

  • Well thats The issue I want Them to MIB. They won't start at all If relative attributes are used.

    And i have had some issues whit stomping and other phaser related things when doing a tracking theather show.

    1.7 Will hopefully solve some of this issues.

    And I am sure some of Them are just errors on My end not knowing The software well enough.

  • I've been through LOTS of problems using phasers on theater shows. I admit it: most of those problems were entirely my fault (first rule: read the manual). But some issues are quite persistent, even when I am starting to be more confident with the software.

    Last week I had lots of issues programming step based phasers built with lots of steps. The phaser worked great on the programmer but it had totally unexpected and random behaviours on the executor.

    Although the SHOW STEPS function is a great tool, I find quite hard to find programming errors on the tracking sheet...

    For me the phaser step based editor is quite difficult to use. While you're building the steps, it seems to have life of its own. Tracking between steps seems to works randomly, for example...

    It would be great if these tools would be more intuitive, with a better user interface and more consistent (less random/unexpected behaviours).

  • I can guarantee nothing ’random’ is happening, that’s not how the software works.

    When you run into a problem you can’t understand like this it’s always best to take notes, a screen recording is even better, and send your showfile to your local distributor support team to assist.

    Its likely just something in your work flow that isn’t aligning with the software intent.

    I hate to read these sorts of ‘had lots of issues’ stories as we’d love to see them resolved.

  • Randomness in in the eye of the beholder.

    When you tell the desk to do something determistic you assume that given the same input it will give you the same output. However that's not always the case, and this looks random to humans.

    I've seen it myself do step a,b,c and get result x then do a,b,c again and get the result y, if you have the time to do a,b,c over and over again until you understand when you will get the result x or y then hopefully at that point you can sent it off to your distributor or post it here. But, in the heat of the moment when the cameras or roling the talent is on stage or you have a designer down your back; it just random.

    Personally I feel like coming to the forums and trying to recreate an issue is public is infinitely more valuable to the community then defaulting to a private conversation since it allows everyone to learn. On the other end everyone needs to understand that software is not only hard but a bit messy at times.

  • Personally I feel like coming to the forums and trying to recreate an issue in public is infinitely more valuable to the community then defaulting to a private conversation since it allows everyone to learn

    In general I agree that having conversations about this stuff in public is valuable, which is one of the reasons why 99% of the time I ignore support requests that come to me via Facebook Messenger, Reddit DM, etc. That being said, speaking as a distributor doing front-line support, there are also many reasons to have that conversation be direct and private (as long as it is through standard support channels), including off the top of my head:

    • Nuance. It is nigh impossible to express nuance in a public forum on the internet, and way too easy for things to get taken out of context or blown out of proportion.
    • Personal connection. Establishing a relationship with your local distributor is a good idea for many reasons, whether that's potential opportunities for more sales, additional education, gigs, etc. You also get someone who can converse with you in your native language, which can be extremely helpful in stressful support situations.
    • Detail. In many cases when someone asks a question, more detail is needed to be able to provide helpful answers or advice. Often that detail may be more than someone is easily able or willing to share in a public forum. (And like nuance, detail can be another tough one to deal with on the internet.)
    • Real answers. There are certainly employees of the factory, MA International, and many distributors on here and in various of the Facebook groups. And there are certainly regular users on here that know their stuff. But to be blunt, there are also lots of people who only think they know their stuff, and either don't actually know or don't understand the whole picture, and thus muddy the waters with unhelpful answers. And to the person asking the question, it's not always clear which is which. Going directly to your distributor helps to cut through that because they will either know the real answer or be able to get the real answer. (This of course also ties back into the point about Detail.)
    • Privacy. Two facets (at least) here:
      • Sometimes people feel embarrassed about asking questions because they fear they will be judged stupid/dumb/etc. for asking. As I'm sure you know, I try to fight this as much as possible, especially on Facebook. But sometimes it's easier to ask those questions privately - especially if it's someone you have previously established a personal connection with (see earlier) rather than a bunch of randos on the internet.
      • As I alluded to in the point about Detail, sometimes the information needed to answer the question for real is information that cannot be shared publicly (whether requiring an actual NDA, or just the trust that it won't be shared).
    • Bug/Wish Tracking and Follow-up. This one I can only speak to as an ACT employee - I don't know if other distributors do this. At ACT we keep track of who has contacted us about feature requests or bug reports, and then send follow-ups when those issues are resolved. But that of course only works when we know who you are (and know that you're in our distribution territory).

    There are probably a few other points that I've missed, but it's after 8pm and I'm still at the office, so I'm going to wrap it up and go home. :)

  • I agree with everything. I've called in because of something simple but required a timely response. There are absolutely lots of reasons to go down the support angle. Look I even derailed this conversation.

    I am somewhat unlike most in that finding an inconsistency drives me nuts until I figure out why. But I appreciate that not everyone has a screw loose like I do 😜

  • I also completely agree with all of the above.

    And for clarity my position is ALSO tell your distributor not INSTEAD of posting. I’m all for public discussion.

    Plus there is a good chance someone can answer your question whilst your local contact is asleep given the international nature of this forum.

    And you’re spot on hoss in regards to ‘randomness’. Most definitely things can appear random, but when you can drill down you find the ‘bazinga!’ moment that explains what is happening. Its usually impossible for the user to have time to this at a show, so yes if you can make a quick recording and send the showfile, often someone in support who does have the time can suss it for you.

    And I think above all else a positive attitude works wonders. If you are convinced something ‘is a pile of crap that never works’ you’re generally going to have a bad time. And it will affect your interactions with those willing to help you too.

    But if you can look at an issue with the view to try and resolve it and ultimately make things better you can generally have a much better experience.

    After all we all want the best product possible in the end right?

  • Just to make things clear:

    I am sorry if I used wrongly the terms "random" or "inconsistency". I'm using ma3 on a daily basis and I am sick of private conversations with people complaining all the times about inconstency and "bugs". I find this software really powerful and I believe it will get much better.

    As with any other complex software or programming language, it sure requires lots of time of learning and practice. It can be frustrating, there could be better learning tools, it would be nice not be obliged to learn ma2. :)

    Anyway, I just wanted to agree to what was previously said: of course, "randomnes" is the direct result of bad programming and ignorance.

    But we're still on a moment that, towards a strange/different behaviour, very easily the word "bug" starts floating around... Personally, I am on a stage that I avoid that word; I assume that there's still lots of stuff I still don't know about this software...

    Although I keep contact with local distributors and other ma users, I am really tired of private conversations that lead to nowhere and are extremelly inconclusive/speculative. Thats why I think that it is really important to bring some of these learning and practice difficulties to public discussion.

    Thanks for the responses. Hope that these words made any sense and lead to no misunderstandings.

  • I think your attitude is awesome!

    And it’s certainly fair to say random I think until you work it out. And yes whilst that behavior is likely technically from ignorance I don’t like that word as it has a lot of negative connotations.

    Completely agree that we need better learning tools, I personally feel ACT is the leader in this area for the MA world, with QSC Q-Sys being the gold standard overall. I think as a new to MA user the worst thing sometimes is to learn MA2 first.

    If we can get good learning tools (and get people to use them before leaping into shows) that remove some of the mysteries we are moving to a good place.

  • Offtopic: For me personaly i feel its a big advantage to not have learned ma2 and Leap straith to ma3. Now I am not hang up on things that are "better" on ma2 or still missing from ma3

    And also coming from etc cobalt that I also learned on The past 3 years its been a pleasure to learn ma3. To me it is very intuitive and straight forward. For The most Part at least.

    Also I like using this Forum for added help but still I report odd behaviors to local dealer and get feedback from MA support. That way I usually can get confirmation If things are working as intented.

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